Best Cold Tolerant Clustering Palms for Shade or Part Sun

[EPaul]

Live in Florida 9B, slightly cooler side of 9B, where we experience dips in high 20s every 2 to 4 winters.  Looking for some ideas on a clustering palm for shade and part sun.  I really enjoy the versatility of Dypsis lutescens, which grows like weeds in warm 9B Florida and above but they received some substantial frostburn last time we got 29 degree weather. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

[thyerr01]

Plenty of options with those temps - which I would give anything to have in Houston...

With varying degrees of risk, you might look into these.

Areca triandra, Arenga engleri, Arenga ryukyuensis, Caryota monostachya, Chamaedorea cataractum, Chamaedorea microspadix, Chuniophoenix hainanensis, Chuniophoenix nana, Dypsis pembana (clumping), Lanonia dasyantha, Licuala fordiana, Licuala spinosa, Rhapis excelsa, Rhapis humilis, Rhapis multifida, Wallichia caryotoides, and Wallichia oblongifolia (syn. densiflora).

Some are more available than others, and some probably only by seed. Floribunda has a few of these currently.

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by thyerr01

[EPaul]

@thyerr01 i I hear a lot about that site on this forum. They are located in Hawaii? I would imagine they don't ship to Florida and if they do it would be quite expensive...?

Edited April 12, 2022 by EPaul

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, EPaul said:

@thyerr01 i I hear a lot about that site on this forum. They are located in Hawaii? I would imagine they don't ship to Florida and if they do it would be quite expensive...?

There is a minimum order, currently $100 according to their website, and shipping is what it is.  If you don't want $100 worth of palms + shipping, sometimes you can partner up with someone locally and split the order.  The plants are very well packaged and typically arrive in pristine condition.

https://www.floribunda.xyz/

[BayAndroid]

Perhaps you could try Dypsis Baronii. I'm giving them a go in zone 9b (Northern California). 

[TheMadScientist]

You're in the Orlando area and a 2 hour drive even with California gas prices is worth visiting other people involved with PALMS.  I'm NOT trying to sway you away from any option, but you are in one of the World Hubs for PALMS.  Search this forum for people that sell, grow, collect and put a 3 person visit close to the others and try the first trip.

Species suggestions above are great.  I will add Chamaerops Humilis, Allagoptera Arenaria, Phoenix Reclinata (many are hybrids)

[Xenon]

Arenga engleri is the winner for cold hardiness and vigor imo. The big clumps at the cathedral in St. Augustine are breathtaking. Should be easy to find too 

[Jim in Los Altos]

Any of the Rhapis species would work but they don’t get tall in case your looking for something on the smaller end of the spectrum. 

[Reeverse]

Arenga Engleri  checks all the boxes and you won’t have to worry about the frost/ cold burn with Dypsis lutescens 

[kinzyjr]

8 hours ago, EPaul said:

Live in Florida 9B, slightly cooler side of 9B, where we experience dips in high 20s every 2 to 4 winters.  Looking for some ideas on a clustering palm for shade and part sun.  I really enjoy the versatility of Dypsis lutescens, which grows like weeds in warm 9B Florida and above but they received some substantial frostburn last time we got 29 degree weather. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

If it weren't for Dypsis lutescens taking damage, I would have included Ptychosperma macarthurii.  The suggestions from the other posters are fantastic.  One thing you might want to do is go see an Arenga engleri before you get one.  The fruit can cause reactions, but down at Naples Botanical Garden they also had to cut the flowers off as some of the staff had a reaction to the flowers as well.  If you're not one of the folks who react negatively to the flowers, they are fantastic - very fragrant and smell like perfume.  

[sonoranfans]

Last I heard, D. Baroni wont take florida humidity well, it will never look happy here.   Arenga Engleri or Arenga Ryukyuensis (if you can find one) would be nice choices.  If you do find  Arenga Ryukyuensis, let us know!   https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Arenga_ryukyuensis

 

[EPaul]

@sonoranfans Arenga Ryukyuensis looks like a nice option but I may be dead before I see any of these for sale - unless you have a source you could pass along? 

[EPaul]

19 hours ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

Any of the Rhapis species would work but they don’t get tall in case your looking for something on the smaller end of the spectrum. 

Looking for something that can get around 8-12 ft.

[thyerr01]

6 hours ago, EPaul said:

Looking for something that can get around 8-12 ft.

Based on this requirement, I recommend Chamaedorea microspadix or Rhapis excelsa. Palmpedia has some good photos of mature clumps of these species to give you an idea of how big they get.

The Arenga sp. are also great and fit this size range, but grow fairly slowly.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by thyerr01

[Merlyn]

Arenga Engleri is a great choice for up to full sun, my 5 clumps took zero damage at 24-26F with frost here in the Sanford area at the end of January.  Two clumps of Lutescens were 90% torched but will grow back.  Dypsis Pembana was also badly burned but will grow back.  Rhapis Excelsa clumps took no damage.  Rhapis will grow up to 8-12 feet, but will be slow to get there from a typical pot...maybe 3-5 years.

Dypsis Pembana is one of my favorites, and took minimal damage at 28-30F with frost.  In the same cold front Lutescens were badly burned.  And a 10' tall Caryota Mitis took only minimal damage.  So Pembana and Mitis are definitely a few degrees hardier, but both get burnt badly below about 27ish.

Ptychosperma Macarthurii is another possibility, a 3' tall one survived the 24-26F with some taller palms nearby to protect it a bit from the frost.  I don't know whether it is more or less hardy than Lutescens.

I would avoid anything Areca, like Areca Triandra...mine melted into nothing at 29F.

One word of caution on Arenga Engleri, there is another called Arenga Tremula that looks almost identical...but is less hardy than Lutescens.  The easy way to tell them apart is that Engleri has single plane leaflets arranged in a "V" on the frond.  Tremula has paired leaflets towards the base of the fronds, sticking out at several different angles like the attached photo.

[EPaul]

@Merlyn Thank you, I appreciate all of the info - especially since you live very close and I'll probably have a similar experience.  I am going to look into all of the species you recommended that I don't have experience with, such as the D. Pembana

@thyerr01 Thank you also - I am going to look into those two recommendations.  

Really appreciate everyone's help as I decide what to get

[KDubU]

Third vote for Arenga engleri. I have five planted on my property in 9a and they are doing very well. I like the look as they are clumping and fill in some areas really well and I am only on year 2.

[Merlyn]

7 hours ago, EPaul said:

@Merlyn Thank you, I appreciate all of the info - especially since you live very close and I'll probably have a similar experience.  I am going to look into all of the species you recommended that I don't have experience with, such as the D. Pembana

@thyerr01 Thank you also - I am going to look into those two recommendations.  

Really appreciate everyone's help as I decide what to get

If you want to check out some Arenga Engleri, go over to Lukas Nursery and walk back behind the greenhouse.  More or less directly South from the greenhouse doors they had 5 or 6 GIANT pots of Engleri for dirt cheap.  They are I think $250 or $150 and absurdly huge for the price.  Most of the time Lukas is really expensive...but not on these!

I sketched the approximate divide between the circled pots.  That's an instant 8' tall hedgeline!

[bar]

Arenga engleri is a great plant, although very slow growing.  I find that in Sacramento it does not like full sun, and performs best in dappled shade or morning sun only.

Bruce

[sonoranfans]

I had 25' caryota mitis and it was 60% toasted in 2018 30 F advective cold event that lasted for at lest 6-7 hrs below freezing.  These are not small palms they can get thick and woody lots of bare trunks own low.  I love the look of arenga engleri and even more the smaller arenga ryukyuensis.  Engleri grows pretty large ultimately to 20'.  ryukyuensis may get to 12'.  I have pembanas and lutecens.  They both do better in part shade, just look more green and healthy.  The trunks are also more colorful in part shade since sun bleaching is less.  The lutecens are less desirable for me since they are prolific clumpers and I end up cutting lots of trunks to prevent them from widening into other palms.  Pembanas are not as good a lutecens as a block since they are not prolific clumpers, but I don't want that extra maintenance.   My two lutecens 11 years in the ground are 20' tall have widened a lot and are growing into other plantings.  I'm not sure there is a difference in survival temperatures for pembana and lutecens.  Its probably 24-25F for 4-5 hrs and they die.  The arengas should be about 2 degrees more cold hardy.  You really have to remember that length of cold can be more important than the actual low temperature in killing a palm.