Amazing Attaleas

[Gileno Machado]

I've received some different species of Attalea seeds from a friend and collector in Ilhéus, south of Bahia State who is crazy for this genus. I think I'm starting to fall in love for these palms myself too. These are some pictures I took yesterday on the road, most of these are A. oleifera, a local widespread species:

[Gileno Machado]

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[Gileno Machado]

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[Gileno Machado]

Now this is another similar species, with smaller fruits, from the Agreste, a drier elevated region of my State. I've heard these are probably Attalea phalerata:

[Gileno Machado]

These two have bigger fruits. They were planted in the 40's by Burle Marx in the Derby square, near my house in Recife. They are known as Orbignyas:

[Gileno Machado]

fruits

[Gileno Machado]

They are being tested for biodiesel production, with good results so far.

[Gileno Machado]

Attalea tesmmanii. (Photo from "Palmeiras brasileiras e exóticas cultivadas" H. Lorenzi et al.)

[jam99]

Excellent photos Amigo. Thanks for sharing. BTW, Orbignya is a synonym of Attalea.

Cheers, Jan

[merrill]

Hi, Gileno:

I'd rather have a mature Attalea in my yard than any Roystonea, perhaps with the exception of R. oleracea.

Is it your impression that A. dubia is the cold-hardiest of the Attalea?  I'm told it is otherwise finicky.  Many thanks for posting these.  - merrill

[Matt in SD]

Nice photos Gileno, I really like Attaleas, but definitely don't have room in my garden.  

I recently saw an Attelea in Hawaii (Jeff Marcus garden) that made me question the generally accepted statement that Raphias have the longest leaves in the flowering plant world.  This palm was literally as big as a house.  I'd estimate the leaves were at least 35 feet long coming straight out of the ground.  I only have a crappy photo that was dark and I tried to lighten it, but there's nothing for scale.  Maybe Bo can get a shot with someone in it next time he's up there.  

Here's the photos repaired as well as I could.  There are some Carpoxylons in the foreground that are more than head high.  You can also seem some Pritchardias near it that despite what it looks like are rather large plants.

[MattyB]

Nice presentation Gileno.  Those "Orbignyas" sure are remeniscant (sp?) of some Parajubaea sp.

[www.dadluvsu.com]

I'm going to try one!  In about a million years, mine will be like all the ones you photographed!

Attalea cohune

[paulgila]

i have a small one similiar to the above post.sooo slow

at this stage of the game...

[calyptrocalyx&licuala freck]

Hello Guys

 G.M. Nice pictures,  Heres One you got to get your hands on,

ESP loving Attaleas, A.allenii,  the smallest in the family

you'll love it. A real stunnner.

Regards,  Mike.E.

[amazondk]

Gileno,

Do you think that there is more than one species of these growing around my area.  I have lumped whatever I see into the babaçu.  Maybe that is not the case.  There are a bunch of other attaleas around though.

dk

[ron@springhammock]

Those Attalea are spectacular.  It's unfortunate that they are so slow, but at least it makes it a unique experience to see them in their native lands.

I've tried A. dubia seed several times, but never could get them to sprout.  I'm sticking with purchasing seedlings from now on when I can find them.

I've been growing this sad A. macrocarpa for a few years.  It's barely hanging on, with maybe one new leaf a year.  Cool weather, in the 40'sF, set it back and damage what few leaves it has.  Hopefully my A. speciosa will fare much better.

[Alberto]

I have a 2m A.phalerata that I transplanted to my property and is recovering slowly from the shock. I have a A.dubia seedling and waiting for a lot of seeds to sprout.

Also two mistery seedlings probably from different species and seeds of A.cohune (swap with a palmnut)...

Once I collected fresh seeds Of A.geraensis ,but they refused to germinate. I also sent this seeds to a lot of people in USA .... I dont know if they had succes!

[bgl]

Matt,

even though Attaleas are VERY impressive palms, I'm not sure they can compete with a mature Raphia farinifera, which reportedly can have fronds up to 50-55 ft. Here's my tallest Attalea. Probably a cohune, and I can't even say that I bought it as a Attalea sp., because it was actually sold to me as a Polyandrococos 11 years ago. In my defense, at the time a) I knew next to nothing about either Attalea or Polyandrococos, and it was a pathetic looking little 3 ft tall palm and I was talked into buying it.... For $7, that was a great investment!!

Bo-Göran

[bgl]

Three smaller ones

[SubTropicRay]

I think Attalea is an amazing palm.  It's another one of those palms that is under utilized in tropical landscapes.  They grow somwehat slower in my area but are fairly steady in more tropical areas.  It's one of the first plantings in my Pine Island garden.

[Gileno Machado]

Thanks Jan.

Merrill: My biggest Attalea (oleifera, still in a 15 liter plastic pot) is only this baby less than 2 years old, pictured below. Attalea dubia is native to the south and southeast coast of Brazil, found as south as Santa Catarina, beyond 28° south, probably the most cold hardy species from the south, possibly along with other Colombian species of altitude.

According to Lorenzi at al., there are 18 native species in Brazil, all of them are shown in detailed pictures: A. apoda, attaleoides (beautiful trunkless "palha branca", a dwarf species from your area Don dk, in floresta de terra firme), barreirensis (dwarf), brasiliensis, burretiana, compta, dubia, exigua, ferruginea, funifera, geraensis, humilis, oleifera, pindobassu, salvadorensis, seabrensis, spectabilis and tesmanni, this last one from extreme western State of Acre and adjoining region of Peru. They occur from coast to coast in quite diversified habitats. That book still brings the amazonic species maripa as a separate genus (Maximiliana) and considers as Orbignya 5 other distinct palm species: brejinhoensis, eichleri, oleifera, phalerata and sagotii (from Manaus again Don). Also, the only natural existing giant hybrid X Maximbignia dahlgreniana -maripaXphalerata-, is shown, from amazonic Pará State in the North (Bondar, Glassman).

I've seen beautiful pictures of A. cohune in the west coast of Mexico and magnificent amigdalinas from Colombian at 1000-1600 m elevation too, one of them (lovely) was pictured cultivated in Australia at Riffle and Craft's Encyclopedia, in which A. allenni and the widespread butyracea are also mentioned, with others amongst the 30 estimated species in the Americas.

Henderson, Galeano and Bernal's Field Guide include the species colenda, from coastal Ecuador, iguadummat from Panama and cuatrecasana from Colombia. Also mentioned are the species nucifera, crassispatha (from Haiti), the Amazonic insignis, microcarpa, luetzelbergii, racemosa, septuagenaria and spectabilis and the book also shows a dropdead picture of a mature plumose funifera in its Bahian habitat.

Merrill: my love for Roystoneas lead me to plant 3 irrigated oleraceas in the sandy ground fifteen years ago. They thrive but they are not suited for coastal exposure with ocasional salt sprays and eventual rainstorms so close to the sea. Still, they are magnificent in their imposing straight up massive looking long trunk. Opposite to Royals, Attaleas are impressive for their crowns. They sort of behave like a giant distichus in the wind, oriented by their flat long leaflet display, forming huge showy "combs" with twisted terminal points. I've managed to germinate quite a few new species here lately, incuding Attalea funifera, which IMO is one of the best looking of them all, for the pictures I've seen.

Yes Matty, from the pictures the mature Parajubaeas might look similar. Both genera are from the tribe Cocoeae but Attaleas are listed in an exclusive subtribe (Attaleinae) while Parajubaeas are lumped in the subtribe Butiinae, more related to the genera Syagrus, Cocos, Butia and Jubaea. Sorry but I've never seen a grown up Paraj around here yet to compare (I guess Acácio has a few youngsters here, west uphills).

Ron: I guess the seedlings of this genus are all slow initially, developing the root system while adapting to soil, temperature, fert and light before they start to jump up in their sudden growth, as it happened here. Let's see other beauties around, I've seen here in the Forum a gorgeous picture of Al's specimen in Kona, Hawaii, too.

PS: Thanks for your patience in reading all this, it was just part of my enthusiasm in learning and researching a little more about this nice family of palms, which I intend to experiment and cultivate more. Agradeço.

[Gileno Machado]

Bo:

Your Attaleas are lovely and eyecatching palms. Beautiful, as usual.

[JD in the OC]

Raphias in Africa have been measured up to 80 feet from base of petiole to tip of frond (Raphia farnifera) making them the second largest leaves in the plant kingdom behind the kelp beds off the California coast, which reach over 400 feet.

Gileno- That is one BIG infructescence!!!!

[Matt in SD]

I know that Raphias are listed as the longest leaves, it's just that I've seen several trunking Raphia farinifera and even one with seed and I'm pretty certain the leaves were not any longer than the largest Attaleas I've seen.  They must grow bigger in Africa.

Thanks again for the photos Gileno.  Very nice palms.  I also remember Al's Atteleas, I think he has a couple near the entrance to his garden and they are very impressive.  Maybe he can post some updates?

matt

[amazondk]

Gileno,

Thanks for all the information.  The A. attaleoides is real common around Manaus.  It is one of the prime palms used for roof thatching.  The babaçu palm in the picture below is very common in certain areas.  Is this the A. speciosa?

I took this picture on final approach to Imperatriz, Maranhão in December.  There are entire forests of babaçu palms in the area.  I think that to a large degree these are in areas of secondary vegetation.   Is this also the same species we have in Amazonas?

[Eric in Orlando]

Here at Leu Gardens we are growing these Attalea;

brejinhoensis

butyracea

cohune

dubia

phalerata

rostrata

The A. rostrata here was planted back in 1973. It survived the 3 record freezes of the 1980s including 2 nights of 19-20F in 12/89. It will show damage below about 27-28F but survives. It is still trunkless but does flower. A. cohune is another that is hardy. I believe this is what is growing at Dent Smith's in Daytona Beach and were planted in the '50s or 60's. I have tried A. macrocarpa here several times but it has always died for some reason.

Here is the "old" A. rostrata;

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/leu4510....65

Here are the other ones, scroll down in the album;

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/leu4510/album/...387720963#page1

[jam99]

(Gileno Machado @ Mar. 21 2007,21:58)

QUOTE

My biggest Attalea (oleifera, still in a 15 liter plastic pot) is only this baby less than 2 years old, pictured below.

Unbelievable. After 2 years, they'd be on their third leaf in my climate. You do live in a paradise. Cheers, Jan

[merrill]

Hi, Gileno:

Thank you for your fascinating post.  I've been interested in Attalea, but uncertain to try it locally.  Any suggestions on germination  of A. dubia would be much appreciated. My greenhouse is 14 ft high in the center.  I'm going to try to grow A. dubia in a 70 litre garbage can before setting it out to encourage good root development, and use protection afterward.  

Roystonea oleraceae is unappreciated here in Florida.  I gave three to a Nephew in a very protected place on the coastal island in central Florida, hoping to see it occasionally.

The apparent diversity in Attalea is remarkable.  Thanks,  merrill

[Nigel]

When I visited Alberto in January he very kindly showed me a beautiful Attalea growing at high altitude in quite a cool place. He also generously gave me seeds but they refuse to germinate.

If anybody knows any tips on germinating them I would be grateful because a cool tolerant form of this magnificent tree would be wonderful.

[merrill]

Hi, Nigel:

This isn't as tedious as it appears, but it is the safest way to open hard-shelled seed:   Dry the seed a few days to loosen it in the shell.  Cut a kerf around the seed w/ hacksaw, not cutting into the endosperm.  Using pieces of triangular file, spread the halves apart in vice.  Grind off the ridges on the file; it works better if smooth  This worked very well for me; gave Acrocomia (notorious) 50% germination promptly.

[Nigel]

(merrill @ Mar. 22 2007,11:47)

QUOTE

Hi, Nigel:

This isn't as tedious as it appears, but it is the safest way to open hard-shelled seed:   Dry the seed a few days to loosen it in the shell.  Cut a kerf around the seed w/ hacksaw, not cutting into the endosperm.  Using pieces of triangular file, spread the halves apart in vice.  Grind off the ridges on the file; it works better if smooth  This worked very well for me; gave Acrocomia (notorious) 50% germination promptly.

Hi Merrill,

Yes, I think this is my last option , I hate doing it because a lot of the seeds succumb to rot after cracking but maybe thats what I must do now.

[cfkingfish]

If you like Attaleas, take a look of a drawing of A. attaleansis with irregular leaflets that go semi-plumose!

[mike453]

Hi Nigel,

Don't try and cut the seeds open that you have already been trying to germinate. They will be too swollen inside the shell to get them out. It may work if you have some very dried ones though. Aside from the above advice, all I can suggest is Patience, warmth and moisture.

                    Good luck, Mike

[Daryl]

I've got Attalea butyracea here, and I have to say it isn't slow. Probably one of the quicker Attaleas. There are some large Attalea sp in Mt Coot-tha bot gdns, with several feet of clear trunk, and they would be less than 30 years old.

They do grow much faster in the ground, and with regular moisture. In pots they are as slow as a week in Melbourne...LOL..sorry Melb people

I first saw a mature Attalea (cohune) in Darwin back in the late 70's. It had about 15 feet of clean trunk, topped with a massive crown. I thought nothing would ever get so massive.

Since then I have seen Arenga pinnata on steroids that were easlily as big.

But, I remember seeing a photo of Raphia in Africa, with a person standing at the trunk base, and the leaves were just unbelievably long...there is no comparison for them. Funnily, every Raphia I have seen in cultivation has been much smaller than the ones in the photo, even fruiting plants.

Daryl.

[Al in Kona]

I have 3- Attaleas growing on the property.  One was purchased from a local nursery which had two 5-gallon size plants with most of the soil washed out from the container and not looking very good.  I was told it was a Polyandrococos, a palm that I was looking for at the time, so I bought it for something like $5. or $7.  It turned out to be an Attalea sp., not sure which one - see the pic below.   It has very long upright leaves - the picture doesn't do it justice.  Looks like Bo got the other one (read his post above).

The other two Attaleas at our driveway entrance were grown from seed collected from a tree in habitat near Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.  At the time they were called Orbignya guacayule.  However, Henderson calls them Attalea cohune.  They are not quite as stiff or upright as the above mentioned  one.

[Al in Kona]

This is a pic of one of our Attalea cohune (formerly called Orbignya guacayule)  . . .

[Al in Kona]

Infructescens hanging at ground level on Attalea cohune (O. guacayule) . . .

[Gileno Machado]

Wow...

This Attalea sp in your first picture is simply monumental, Al...I bet you guys (Bo and Al) wished there were still some more fake Polyandrococos for sale in that hawaiian nursery...

About germination:

Some of the seeds that were sent to me as a gift from Bahia were already de-husked and ready to go. The A. funifera (piassaba or piaçava) nuts (bottom right) are still quite big, very dense and heavy as plumb. I placed the seeds in long soda plastic jugs with moist cocopeat (some in decomposed soil, with similar results), kept them in a warm garage through summer watering slightly every few days. These seeds are not easy and ready to sprout. A. humilis and funifera showed the best results so far, along with brejinhoensis. Oleiferas take a little longer and the species from Central-West Brazil and Amazonia (Scheelea and Maximiliana maripa) haven't started their germination here yet.

Hey Don: Let me know if you happen to obtain A. speciosa and attaleoides seeds around your location ok? That Babaçual in Maranhão looks incredible from the sky. Being in the pre-amazonic humid region they have just the perfect weather to grow these palms over there. I don't know the exact species, I'd guess they are either speciosa or phalerata. They've been sure planting lots of biodiesel palms for the future automobile industry hmm? I hope Maranhão won't become the Iraq of the 22th century, with José Sarney as Saddam Hussein.  

[amazondk]

Gileno,

Jose Sarney for better or worse is now installed in Amapa.  But, his daughter is still around as senator from Maranhão.  I think I have a few A. attaloides seeds on a tree on my lot here.  I will see if there are still any.

dk